Dear Goldy:
I have gone out with someone a few times. This may be too soon to ask or to discuss, but at some point, it should be. And maybe someone else has a similar situation, so this could help others. Who knows if I’ll still be dating him by the time the email is published (please publish it).
Most of the story is not mine to tell, it’s his. But what I can tell you is that he didn’t have a stable childhood. He and his brother were moved around from family member to family member and then finally put into the foster care system for reasons I’m not so sure of. I’ll call him Yaakov. Yaakov is 23 now. He earned his degree, found work, makes a decent living, shares an apartment with a roommate. I knew all of this going in. I don’t think Yaakov should be punished because of how he was forced to live his childhood. When I looked into the shidduch, I spoke with rebbeim, Yaakov’s cousins, etc. They all had nice things to say. I asked if Yaakov ever acted erratically or was prone to mood changes. I was trying to find out about his mental health, because I’m sure he bares scars from his childhood, and I want to know if they ever come to the surface. As far as I was told, no.
On the dates, I asked Yaakov if he’s comfortable talking about family, because I wanted to tell him a few things about myself, and a lot of it has to do with my family. I didn’t want him to feel like I was pouring salt into a wound. Yaakov said he was fine with it and understands that his background is not the average background. In a sentence, he is close with his brother and some cousins.
Yaakov doesn’t need to do a 23andMe or Ancestry kit, because he knows who his family is. He wasn’t put up for adoption and adopted by strangers. My worry is that I need to know more than just the basics of who he is. The environment we are raised in shapes the person we become. He (as well as his brother) was passed around the family and then lived with at least two foster families that I know of. I can’t relate to his upbringing, but I need to understand more about it in order to get to know Yaakov better.
When can I ask Yaakov all the questions that I’m curious about and get the answers in order to know if I should continue dating him? What if he doesn’t want to share? So far, he has spoken of his brother, cousins, and one foster family, but just topically. I didn’t want to push, but I also don’t want to go on 20 dates before he decides to open up to me.
Menucha
*****
Thank you for your letter, Menucha.
This is the first time I’ve been sent an email with this sort of situation, so I’m trying to go about this right along with you.
First things first: You wrote that Yaakov and his brother were raised by family and then at least two foster families that you know of. So, yes, no need to spend the money on a 23andMe kit. But then again, that would be Yaakov’s choice and not yours. Even if he didn’t know anything about his biological family, if he isn’t willing to find out the information and search databases, then you have no say in the matter.
As I wrote in the response published last week (or was it the week before), you admit to going out with Yaakov a few times. You may not even still be with him when this is published. Yaakov admitted that he knows he doesn’t have the average backstory. You can’t expect someone to open up because he is on date #3 with you. You wrote that he’s 23; you can’t be much older. I don’t think you’re 39, in a rush to find your bashert, and don’t have time to let things unfold naturally. All daters have to feel safe and comfortable with whomever they are with, when they decide to open up about themselves. Talking about his past may be triggering; you don’t know if there were serious issues that he (and his brother) dealt with or are still dealing with, how he as a child and teenager felt being passed around and then sent to live with a foster family that we can only hope were loving, caring, and supportive. But what if they weren’t?
Are you worried that one or both of his parents may have mental health issues or abused alcohol or drugs in the past or abused Yaakov and his brother? All are natural thoughts to have. We also know that science has proven that those who were abused may be more prone to abuse others as they age, and those with a family history of drug or alcohol abuse are more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, than those not raised by a parent who suffered from addiction. Mental illness can “run in families.” Your worries are not silly, and whomever Yaakov does get close to, in terms of shidduchim, does have a right to know this information. But are you there yet?
Yaakov is in the shidduch “parshah” and knows that his past will come up – no maybe about that. But does he have to open up on the first or second date about everything? I imagine he is working with someone who is acting as his shadchan who is looking out for him. How did you find out about Yaakov? Who suggested him? Someone is advocating for him (I hope). I’m sure Yaakov has a “resume,” right? What was sent to you about him? You said that you did all you could to try to find out information about him – you spoke with rebbeim, cousins, etc., even asking questions that may seem out of the ordinary, but yet necessary to ask. It’s only normal to know what or who you are getting yourself involved with. But how far do you go before you finally agree to one date?
Now, you seem to like Yaakov and want to continue dating him, but you still don’t have that complete or even half-complete picture of who he is. It’s not as if he’s hiding parts of himself from you, but he has a right to privacy, to protect himself. Just because he dates someone a few times doesn’t mean he has to tell her everything. You wrote that you know a few things about family members, his brother, etc. Yaakov seems to be opening up as much as any man would open up on a date with a woman he hardly knows. Slowly. And Yaakov has what to be protective of. I hate to add that some in our circle only need a little bit of information before a small fact ends up becoming a juicy piece of information, not gossip, but something more like, “I think it’s important for you to know...” Yaakov’s story may have more chapters than other frum fellows out there. Ever think Yaakov may be worried that you or whomever he was dating would view him differently or stop dating him altogether once he reveals ___or ____? There may be a good chance that Yaakov wants someone to get to know him, and when he feels comfortable, he will tell some pieces of the tale bit by bit and see how “she” reacts. He has to protect himself, as well. Yaakov may even be in therapy about just this topic: what to reveal and when to do it.
In a very short answer, I’d say wait a few more dates before asking questions that would cause him to begin telling you about his history. Because he may push back and not be ready for it. And when you do, tread lightly. If he does like you, he will want to share, but you can’t push such a sensitive topic (and if he just blurts out everything as if it was nothing, “Yeah, that’s my past, but I’m working on my future,” I’d put up my antenna to that as well. It doesn’t seem like something to act so flippant about.). You may not even have to ask questions because Yaakov may feel comfortable enough one day to begin telling you something about his past. Yaakov owes you nothing at this point. You’re a young woman he’s met a few times. Nothing more. Don’t think that because he has a past, you have a right to poke and prod right away.
Tread carefully, but if things continue, yes, you do have a right to have him answer your questions. We’re talking about a life partner for the next 50 years. You need to go into the situation with your eyes wide open.
Hatzlachah to you all!
Goldy Krantz is an LMSW and a lifelong Queens resident, guest lecturer, and author of the shidduch dating book, The Best of My Worst and children’s book Where Has Zaidy Gone?
She can be contacted at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..
